Finding a Coworker Unresponsive: What Comes Next?

It’s a situation no one ever expects -- walking into work and discovering a coworker unresponsive. In this episode, we talk about what to do in those first critical moments, how emergency responders handle the scene, and what happens while waiting for the coroner to arrive. Jimmy shares a firsthand experience from a past job, and a similar event witnessed by one of our vendors. Plus, we take a behind-the-scenes look at 911 dispatchers -- the challenges they face and why calling for help is just the beginning. 

Don't miss this fascinating episode! We promise to keep it light and informative, despite the difficult topic.

Life Safety Associates specializes in emergency response training for corporate ERT Teams. We help businesses create competent and confident first responders who are ready to handle unexpected emergencies. For more information you find us @lifesafetyassoc or email@lifesafety.com.

Chapters

• 0:00 Office Death Procedures and Reactions
• 13:44 The Process of Dealing With Death

Transcript

Jimmy: 0:23

what's happening. It's your boy, jimmy, and your girl, megs, with another life and safety podcast. Uh, I see dead people. That's the title of today's podcast. Um, uh, so I've gotten this question a couple times. Um, in class, believe it or not? And we actually had a in class, believe it or not? And we actually had a person, one of our vendors, come in and share the story with us that one of their co-workers passed away in their office.

Jimmy: 1:03

So obviously it's not ideal when anybody passes away, but what are some of the things that happen when people pass in the office? So, first and foremost, when we come across somebody in distress and we don't know we're not doctors or paramedics we can't really pronounce people dead. There are some obvious signs of death. We're not going to get into that too much today, but, believe me, you'll know, you'll know when you'll see it. Now I'll share my story and then I'll share the story of what happened with our vendor, our teammate. So years and years ago, back when I was a seasonal firefighter, I was working as a contract security guard, slash EMT and I used to do that because, first, first off, I got to write my own schedule and I'd almost always give myself the weekend off that's nice yeah and I got to work as much as or as little as I wanted to, because the company was contractually obligated to have EMTs on the site, so and they had their own ambulances and everything.

Jimmy: 2:29

So it was super easy money. I didn't have to deal with anybody, so to speak, Unless of course somebody got hurt. And that was fine. Easy money, All good. I had gotten in that morning with a shift supervisor, that morning with a shift supervisor and we were getting a call. The graveyard person was getting transitional phone calls from this lady and it ended up being the person's wife. But she called and said hey, I haven't been able to get a hold of my husband. This is his office number. Can you go check on it? In this particular building everybody had their own offices. It was really cool and one of the big things we would do there was people would lock themselves out of their office all the time and we'd just go open the doors and let them in.

Jimmy: 3:25

So super easy money.

Jimmy: 3:26

Um so super easy money. So like, um, same time people start showing up to work. Right Six in the morning, people are showing up and they're like, hey, this alarm's going off. It's really annoying. And it's we're in this office and it sounds like it might be coming from this office and we're like, oh, man, it's the same office. So we started putting two and two together. We're like, oh's the same office, so we start putting two and two together. We're like, oh, I wonder if something happens.

Jimmy: 3:51

So we get up there and bang on the door no response, go through our procedures of trying to get somebody to respond, which infuriates everybody else in the area that already called to complain about the guy's alarm clock because we're being on the door. So we're like, all right, we're gonna go in, we're gonna go in. So we walk in and the person um was basically already in rigor mortis. He was already stiff head back and he was in a chair and somehow the way the chair is balanced, just like that, he was spinning. Think of like old, like sci-fi movies or like that. When you see, like the bad guy spin around in the chair. It was like that, but it kept going like a ballerina in a jewelry box.

Jimmy: 4:49

Oh my god and we were like, huh, he did, you know. And the guy that was the supervisor at the time was like he was also an emt and he's like we needed to do something. And my response to him literally was, when you say we, you mean you, because there's nothing we can do for that guy. Uh, I said let's call 9-1-1 and have them come out. And he said, well, if they come out, we got to start CPR. And I was like we don't have to start CPR, we just need to come out and make sure that this wasn't foul play or something. And we need to start calling our bosses. And he was pretty adamant about doing CPR and I said, all right, man, if you want to do CPR, go for it. I got your back, but you're starting.

Jimmy: 5:46

And he had only done transport ambulance work, so he'd never really been kind of in the heat, if you will. So he started seeing CPR and he's like this is really tiring. I go yeah. And I was giving breaths. And I go yeah, do you want to switch? And he goes yeah, and I go cool, we didn't switch, it was over Because 911 showed up. And so 911 showed up and we were like, hey, guys, sounds like a fire. This is what happened. So we found them. They're like what are you guys doing CPR for that guy's obviously dead. What are you guys doing CPR for that guy's obviously dead? Now you have to think this person had been dead for hours.

Jimmy: 6:44

Mm-hmm, when we pulled him out of the chair, he was still pretty stiff. Mm-hmm, when we pulled him out of the chair, he was still pretty stiff. So his arms went down but his legs stayed the same. So think of when you see the cartoon characters that are like dead, like dead animals like that, with the hands and the feet in the air. That's how this guy's feet were. That's crazy and that's why I was like dude, what are we doing, man, this guy's? We shouldn't be doing this.

Jimmy: 7:20

So the fire department showed up there. They laughed at us, um, you know, gave us the business a little bit, which was fine, all good, and then the ambulance never showed up. You know, they got busy things, they got things to do. So what we ended up doing was covering the person, locking the door and waiting for the coroner to show up. Now we you us, unless you're a coroner are not certified to move dead people. So if you're just a dead person in the office, things like that, nobody is allowed to move them, unless you're going to obviously render medical aid or something like that. But for the most part, we don't move them. They actually have to stay in the office or where you found them to the corner, can pick them up, and, depending on how busy it is, the corner could be hours. You know, now our vendor story was a lot different because they obviously were not, you know, emergency responders. Right, they weren't trained to do those things, whereas we were, and I'm sure it was super traumatic for him yeah you know, not trained, not able to do things um let's tell the story

Jimmy: 8:46

yeah, so again. So again, I wasn't here. I was actually teaching out and about when our vendor came and told the story. The gist of the story is we actually a coworker, went to offer the other coworker a snack like a donut or a bagel or something like that in the morning and thought the co-worker was asleep. Uh, so they circled back and talked to the co-worker and was like, hey, I don't think this person's asleep, this person may be dead and we have a special guest joining us now at this point, mrs Life Safety. It's Jenny, and she was told the story and you heard what I said already. Right, about just a little bit of what you heard. So basically, the person that passed away they thought were sleeping, the person offering the donuts or whatever the snack was the communal meal that morning came back and was like I don't think he's actually sleeping, he might be dead. Got that right so far.

Jenny: 10:05

Yeah, I mean I don't know if they thought that they were actually quite dead yet, just that something was wrong, got it, something wasn't right, so I imagine they went in and checked on the person.

Jimmy: 10:21

Yeah, so person gets checked on or suggested they should be checked on, and the person they went to I assume has never had anything like this happen to them in their life and it's probably a safe assumption for that. And the person freaked out. They didn't know what to do and that happens. It's okay, team, to freak out a little bit. It's okay to freak out. I freaked out. You know, that person got another person and then 911 was called right At that point.

Jenny: 10:55

Yep.

Jimmy: 10:57

Now I'm going to let Jenny kind of tell this part of the story, because I'm a little hazy on. There was a there was an issue with the 911 call and I'm gonna let Jenny talk to that. Um good, yeah.

Jenny: 11:08

So they called 911 and I don't know how they determined that they believed the person was beyond reviving, that there wasn't anything that they could do for that person anymore, but they felt that that there wasn't. And so while they're on the phone with 911, they get transferred to the medical people. How does that work?

Jimmy: 11:33

So what happens is 911 actually has a little screen, a little program. Think of it like the Windows icons. When you open up something, something else opens up. Something else opens up. So that's why they ask you so many questions, so they can then render care or help you give care and they can talk you through it. So I assume the 911 operator was like hey, start doing these things. And the person that we know was probably like no, I don't think we should do that because this person's gone right. Obvious science, like I said earlier before jenny walked in, when you know, you know the person's dead or not could be revived yes, and that, and that's that's how they felt while they were on the phone with them, which I get feeling that way.

Jenny: 12:34

But then the they said that they were transferred from the operator to somebody else, so whoever this medical person was that they were talking to, um ask them to do certain tasks. I don't know what those were. I didn't get all those details and they're like, but they're gone, Like why would I do that if this person is not alive anymore? And the 911 person said well, are you refusing to render care? Are you refusing to take care of this person? Our vendor was like, well, no, like I'm not, but there's nothing to be done anymore. And I felt really bad because it sounded like a really difficult interaction. Right, why are they asking me to do this? Because there is nothing that I can do, and maybe the person on the phone that was asking if they were refusing to render care sounds like maybe they weren't all that nice about it either.

Jimmy: 13:40

Absolutely, absolutely Right. Refusing to render care sounds like maybe they weren't all that nice about it either, or absolutely, absolutely right. So the person receiving those phone calls they're getting all of these weird dramatic calls all day, you know summer, you know could, yeah, just think of all the emergencies that these folks have to listen to Now. First, what happens is there's a phone person that answers the phone call and then they have to keep answering phone calls and dispatching right, they have to dispatch it to services and there's other call takers and then there's other people that take that and get more information and then also talk to the police or to the fire engine or to the ambulance, right. So that's why it got transferred, that's why it soon happened.

Jimmy: 14:27

Um, now that person knows a tenth of the information that you've given. So when you call 911, that person says what's your emergency? And you think, I think there's somebody you know might be dead. In our thing, they're going to go. Oh, okay, let's help this person, let's give this person the best chance of survival. You know, maybe if our point of contact said we found our coworker and I think they've been dead a while, it might have been a different conversation.

Jenny: 15:01

That totally makes sense, because the person on the phone doesn't know.

Jimmy: 15:05

Exactly.

Jenny: 15:06

As much as you do, right, they don't know what's in your head. They can't read your mind.

Jimmy: 15:09

They can't see it.

Jenny: 15:11

Right. So all they think is that you're just like, yeah, I'm scared, I'm not going to do this. Yeah, even though, yes, you're scared, but you feel there's nothing to be done.

Jimmy: 15:22

Absolutely. And the 911 operators they want to take care of people too, right, they have their capes on, they want to save people. You know, and it's hard when, because the short time I was in a dispatch center after I got hurt, one of the first things I figured out was it was super hard because you don't get closure and you don't get to like help. You just get to send somebody and go, hey, go help that person, and you have no idea what happened. You just answer another phone call. So it's very hard on them and I get that and I get that. I get that. Now the other interesting fact um well, first off, 9-1-1 never showed up, right like fire engine. The ambulance never showed up, or they did, or did you get that information?

Jenny: 16:13

I don't know, yeah, I don't know, yeah, but before we jump ahead. You know, if we were to go in and find somebody that way, how would you know that it's too late to perform CPR, or something like that? Like how would you know what if maybe the person had just passed out and you should do CPR? So I'm sure there's no hard line answer, but.

Jimmy: 16:45

There is, and we were. I alluded to it earlier before you walked in, so full disclosure. It's also, though, like I don't totally want to get into it, but you know, when you know you'll see the person, their face is going to be different, the skin color is going to be different for that person.

Jenny: 17:06

You'll know there's a smell sometimes if they've been for a while.

Jimmy: 17:10

Depending on how long, but also usually you smell is waste. Their body avoids themselves.

Jenny: 17:18

So after just approximately how much time can you still perform CPR? Like if it's been 30 seconds a minute, three minutes, five minutes, 10 minutes, 30, like at what point you know what I mean. Like how would you even, and you don't know how long they've been sitting there? So it's lots of unknowns. Yeah, and that's the hard part is that there's so much unknowns and there's so many factors that go into it.

Jimmy: 17:41

Yeah, yeah, yeah, when the story I told, when I found the dead guy, when I worked at that place I worked at I was, you know security guard EMT. He had blood in his throat, in his under neck, he had blood underneath his arms, like the blood pooled in all the low spots and I was like he's not alive, you know, and that's usually takes like an hour or plus for that to happen. So, like you know, that's why I'm just trying to keep it very vague.

Jenny: 18:22

You'll know when you know I feel like I yeah, you would just know. But then maybe that's something you have to relay if you're on the phone with 911, right, absolutely information when in doubt, just say what you see to them. I would say, be not necessarily as descriptive as you can, but being vague on the phone call with 911 isn't going to help you and isn't going to help the person and isn't going to help the people trying to help.

Jimmy: 18:53

Absolutely no. That's a good point, megs and Jen. That's super good points. But paint a picture. Paint a picture and let them know. And, and and, jen, that's super good points, you know, but paint a picture, paint a picture and let them know.

Jenny: 19:14

So the next part of the story is that then they had to wait a really long time for the coroner to come, like multiple hours, and that's also rough, because you're what do you? There's a dead person right there.

Jimmy: 19:21

Right.

Jenny: 19:21

And what do you do? And you, but you have to stay right, especially if you're in your place of work, right, you don't?

Jimmy: 19:29

just leave and lock the doors.

Jenny: 19:31

Yeah Right, and that's somebody that you care about, that your coworker and friends likely to write, or your family member or sure, sure.

Jimmy: 19:43

So you know the story I told earlier. You know, we covered the person. You know, put jacket over and put a blanket over, you know, and just try to isolate them, don't have to mess with it. You know, let the person just kind of, you know, be, crank the air conditioning if you can, right, we don't want them to get too warm and start to smell to make its point, all right, but that takes a while.

Jimmy: 20:08

That takes a while, I mean it takes hours and and if they are there, you know if they have to be found, and they're there the whole day, and then it is what it is. But again, don't move the person. It's against law. You, the coroner has, is the only person that can move them, unless you're going to render aid, right? So, um, something you just have to deal with and why does it take so long?

Jenny: 20:31

like you think that I mean like I could see maybe like no rush, that they're not going anywhere, but like why does it take so long?

Jimmy: 20:42

Busy day, there might have been a lot of dead people in the county.

Jenny: 20:46

Ouch yeah.

Jimmy: 20:48

Yeah, I mean I can't tell you what the manning is of corner folks that get to pick people up, but I would imagine there's no more than four to six people a day.

Jenny: 21:00

Three, three vans, you know, picking somebody up, moving them and think of I guess that process takes time right, not just getting there, but whatever that process is afterwards, how they have to handle them and where they have to take them.

Jimmy: 21:18

Yes, those processes.

Jimmy: 21:21

Oh, those processes and judgments and things like that happening right, but there's documentation that has to be done, there's lots Lunch has to happen, there's lots of things that happen, you know. So it could be hours. I know one of our clients unfortunately had somebody pass and they did CPR on them. They did the best they could and the ambulance showed up. They helped and they're like, oh man, they got there, they set up their monitors Like that person's dead, and didn't pick them up and put him on the gurney and take him away.

Jimmy: 21:58

They left him and it's like, what about the body? They're like, yeah, the coroner will come pick him up and like walked away and it was on this manufacturing floor. So they were like we can't leave the guy there. And they leave the guy there and they were like where do you want to put them? And they're like we got a conference room over there, let's put them in there. Today literally picked him up, put him in a conference room, put him on the conference table awkward conversation to have isn't it though yeah uh, but that's what happens, unfortunately.

Jimmy: 22:33

Unfortunately, you know, and think of like after a disaster, an actual disaster, if there are dead people at your work, technically you can't move them, the corner has to move them, you know weird things weird chink in the system.

Jimmy: 22:50

Alright, team. Well, that's a story. So what do? So? Our takeaways from this podcast call 911 paint up a good picture and expect the worst. That's a story. Our takeaways from this podcast Call 911. Paint up a good picture, expect the worst, the worst being that person is going to be sitting there with you for a while.

Jenny: 23:10

One little side note is, if there's any doubt about it, if you're like are they really dead? Provide aid.

Jimmy: 23:18

After you feel comfortable with it, for sure, start CPR. And if you don't know CPR, reach out to your boy, jimmy, and Jenny and Megs at lifesafetycom. Email at lifesafetycom. That'll go to Jenny, not me. She's better with that stuff. Anyways, facts, be safe, be cool and we'll see you next time. Peace.