Silent But Deadly

It’s odorless, invisible, and a little misunderstood. In this episode we're busting some of the most common myths about carbon monoxide. Including why that outlet plug detector might be a waste of your moola.

We'll break down how CO poisoning actually works, where you should place your detectors, and how to avoid other sneaky everyday dangers, like blocked chimneys and indoor grilling disasters, to running generators during a blackout.

We're also sharing:

• Why you won't feel like you’re suffocating… until it’s too late
• What symptoms to watch for (and why it can look like the flu)
• How carbon monoxide affects pets (and why your cat might be the new canary)
• Why carbon monoxide is slightly lighter than air, and how that effects detector placement
• What to do immediately if the alarm goes off (hint: it’s not waving a kitchen towel at it)

This topic might not be flashy, but it’s personal. Admit it... we’ve all ignored a beeping alarm or assumed a detector was working just because it was there.

We’ve seen first hand what happens when people don’t know the signs, and how easy it is to prevent a tragedy with just a few simple changes. So in this episode we’re making it easy to understand, and throwing in a little humor - as always.

Whether you’re a renter with a mystery detector in the hallway or a homeowner trying to figure out what "turbulent air" means, this episode will give you some new insights.

Life Safety Associates specializes in emergency response training for corporate ERT Teams. We help businesses create competent and confident first responders who are ready to handle unexpected emergencies. For more information you find us @lifesafetyassoc or email@lifesafety.com.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to Carbon Monoxide
• 1:48 Alarming Statistics from the CDC
• 2:28 Debunking Common Carbon Monoxide Myths
• 5:07 Proper Detector Placement
• 6:47 How Carbon Monoxide Affects Your Body
• 9:00 Common Sources of Carbon Monoxide
• 15:22 What To Do When Alarms Go Off
• 17:37 The Canary in a Coal Mine

Transcript

Jimmy: 0:23

What's happening? Welcome to another life and safety podcast with Jimmy and your girl, megs.

Megan: 0:30

Hello.

Jimmy: 0:32

Today we're going to be talking about a little fire safety per se, a little carbon monoxide poisoning, and we're going to talk about some myths, some stats and why it's important to have a carbon monoxide detector. And with that I'm going to pass this over to Megs for some very interesting stats.

Megan: 0:56

So carbon monoxide is I've heard it called the silent killer, because oftentimes you don't know that you have carbon monoxide poisoning and then you just feel sick, you have a headache, you're nauseous, maybe you think you have the flu, and then you're dying, which is not great. You want to avoid that. So, according to the CDC, more than 400 Americans die each year from unintentional carbon monoxide poisoning not linked to fires. Not linked to fires, more than 100,000 visit the emergency room each year and of those, more than 14,000 are hospitalized each year for carbon monoxide poisoning. So it's definitely a pretty big issue, one that has a pretty easy fix. You know carbon monoxide detectors. Make sure that, if you have carbon monoxide detectors, that they are in fact detecting, that they're working, you know they're not out of batteries, they're not covered in dust, and make sure that they're placed correctly. Which leads us into our myths.

Jimmy: 2:05

Yeah, actually I probably have passed some of these myths on right. So carbon monoxide, I thought, was heavier than air, so it would sink. And we did some research based on the Sigma Aldrich SDS. Base d on the Sigma Aldrich SDS, the vapor density of carbon monoxide is 0.97, where air is 1. So that means it's lighter than air Ever so slightly Ever so slightly, so it would just slightly float, and one of the recommendations of installing a carbon monoxide is to put it I think we saw one that was like four feet from the top right.

Jimmy: 2:55

Yeah, your ceiling on the wall. So if it's a 10 foot ceiling, about five, six feet up yeah, about five or six feet up. You know that's good math. Thank Thank you. Four minus two is five or six. Huh, I'm supposed to be the bad math person, megs.

Megan: 3:13

It is. Take offense. At least four feet away is between five and six feet.

Jimmy: 3:22

No, it's actually six.

Megan: 3:23

It's at least four feet away.

Jimmy: 3:26

Oh, here we go, well, the at least, huh, at least. If it's exactly four feet away, that's at least four feet away. Oh, here we go, well, the at least, huh, at least.

Megan: 3:29

If it's exactly four feet away, that's at six feet, but if you go at least so more than four feet.

Jimmy: 3:34

Here we go, here we go. Hope you're all driving with your boots on, because some bullshit going on right now. So so I actually and there are some carbon monoxide detectors that you plug into the wall and that's in an outlet on the ground, and that makes lots of sense to me. It did, and so we did some research this morning that if it's ever in the air it would go down by the outlet.

Megan: 4:06

Yeah, as far as placement goes, the NFPA National Fire Protection Association.

Megan: 4:15

Nice recommends that you have a carbon monoxide alarm should be centrally located outside of each separate sleeping area in the immediate vicinity of the bedrooms. Those are big words. Basically, just make sure that you have a carbon monoxide alarm near where you're sleeping. It also recommends that if your bedroom hallway is longer than 40 feet, you should have one at each end of the hallway. It's also suggested that you have at least one alarm for each floor.

Megan: 4:50

So if you have a basement, one in the basement. If you have a two-story house, at least one on each floor. So if you have a basement, one in the basement. If you have a two-story house, one at least one on each floor. If possible. It's good to have one in each bedroom as well. But when you're doing that, make sure that you're not placing them inside garages, kitchens, furnace rooms or anywhere extremely dusty or dirty or anywhere that's like poorly insulated, like an addict, or a crawl space, because you want to make sure that the carbon monoxide alarm isn't getting too cold or too hot. If they're in like really greasy areas or fuel burning areas within 20 feet of those, then they might go off at not a time to be alarmed by. Does that make sense?

Jimmy: 5:38

My words weren't great.

Megan: 5:38

All right, awesome.

Megan: 5:40

Or extremely humid areas like bathrooms should be at least 10 feet away from the bath, or a shower or sauna humidifier, et cetera, et cetera, just because water can also mess with the sensors.

Megan: 5:51

And then don't place them right near quote turbulent air meaning like ceiling fans, air conditioners, vents, things like that, or open windows or windows that you have open often because blowing air can prevent the detector from detecting the carbon monoxide because it's flowing, the air is flowing and keeping it from landing on the sensor in a way that sets off the alarm. So what causes carbon monoxide poisoning? Basically, the science behind it is that carbon monoxide is. It bonds to the hemoglobin in your blood and it bonds a lot better than the oxygen. So, even though you have oxygen in your system, the carbon dioxide monoxide, not dioxide oh, we had that issue earlier. Carbon monoxide bonds to the hemoglobin in your blood a lot better than the oxygen and it just takes that spot. And so you basically suffocate from the inside out, even though you have oxygen in your system or around you. It's just that your blood likes the carbon monoxide a lot better and you just don't get oxygen into your system in the way that you need it right.

Jimmy: 7:09

So that should take us to what are some signs and symptoms of carbon monoxide poisoning like what you mentioned? You know that people would kind of feel like they were sick, the flu or something like that. But what are some more specific things other than the flu-like symptoms, which?

Megan: 7:27

is everything which is everything right headaches are a big one Dizziness, nausea, you know, confusion, fainting things like that. A lot of times you don't necessarily feel like you don't have oxygen. My understanding is you don't feel like you're suffocating because your body, the hemoglobin, is still acting on a molecule. It's just the wrong molecule, so the alarm systems that are in your body don't necessarily go off and don't necessarily or not like oh, I feel like I'm suffocating. What? I knocked the table, I shifted my leg and I kicked the table. I'm sorry that was me. No, you're.

Jimmy: 8:11

That was me. No, you're good, it just startled me.

Megan: 8:17

But yeah, so you feel sick, but you don't necessarily feel like you're suffocating.

Jimmy: 8:22

Good. So the headache let's talk about the headache. So it does start off as a dull headache. You're in the base of your neck and then it gets to be really painful, like migraine type headache towards the front of your head.

Megan: 8:37

Exciting.

Jimmy: 8:38

Yeah, so it's pretty awesome, right, if the person's suffocating. But they don't know they're suffocating, they just feel achy and gross To your point. What are some other things that cause carbon monoxide poisoning? So obviously a house fire, right, or leaking appliance, maybe things like that. So now, like, the house fire is not really going to give you carbon monoxide poisoning, it's probably the pre, it's the precursor to a fire, and the heavy smoke and stuff like that from the fires what usually kills you, right? Um, but how does one get carbon monoxide other than that?

Megan: 9:17

um, a big one is, uh, in the garage, like if you have your car running and you have your garage door shut and your car is inside the garage. I feel like that's implied, but I should clarify sure um things like that yeah, yeah.

Jimmy: 9:34

Yeah, I think that's a little harder to do nowadays, I think, with the cars, because they're so low emission, but it definitely can happen. So don't just be like, oh, I have a low emission car, I have a newer car, it's going to be okay. Nah, it can still happen. Growing up, that was always a big thing. Growing up, that was always a big thing. You know. Most of you know. I grew up in the mountains and people were always like if you get stuck in the cold in your car, you know, don't fall asleep with your heater on your car on, because it would suck the carbon monoxide from your exhaust and stuff in your car and it's not going to keep you warm. It will keep you warm, but it could potentially kill you too.

Jimmy: 10:12

So that was a thing and I remember at a ski resort that happening to two people. They were sleeping in their car at the ski resort trying to get fresh tracks, I guess. Or first tracks First and fresh tracks, and they ended up dying because of the heater on their car and then people being stuck on the road happens.

Megan: 10:39

That makes sense.

Megan: 10:40

Yeah, grills are another big one so hopefully you're grilling outside in a well ventilated location, um, but in emt school my teacher talked about a story that he responded to. A family it was was you know dead of winter, freezing cold. Their heating went out so they brought their grill inside, um, as a sort of you know little space heater. Um, and they didn't process that that was going to be a problem and they started feeling really sick. So they called 911. Cause they're like I don't know what's happening. We're all like throwing up and our head hurts and we feel really sick and we don't know why. And then, uh, was in fact carbon monoxide poisoning, um. Another one is generators, especially like a? Um. Don't know where I was going with that, but generators, even if you think that you prop open a window and so it's ventilated, not enough. Don't be running a grill or a generator or none of that inside in locations, because you're going to die.

Jimmy: 11:47

Yeah. So what about if we had, when we have our big earthquake and I wanted to power my house with my generator? Mm-hmm, so keep that generator outside and run a really long extension cord.

Megan: 12:01

Yeah.

Jimmy: 12:03

Right, versus having it in the house or even in the garage, mm-hmm, because if you open up the garage, you can potentially start a fire because it is highly flammable. Carbon monoxide is right, so we definitely want to be careful of that.

Megan: 12:23

Another one is like blocked vents. So if you're going to be doing any remodeling in your house, make sure that you're following safety codes and stuff and not accidentally blocking a flu or anything like that. If you're going to be having a um like if you have a fireplace in your living room and you actually yeah, it's one of the very few clean air days where you can or not clean air days.

Megan: 12:48

Words are hard one of the days that you could actually burn, burn wood in your uh fireplace at your house to make sure that you know you're venting it properly and you have your chimney open. And all of that Making good choices, good choices.

Jimmy: 13:02

Yes, it is definitely. We have a fireplace in our house. I think we're lucky we don't get to burn it as much as I'd like to because of the clean air days, things like that, and the family people in my family just don't do well with the smoke in the house and stuff like that. And if you do have one, one of the things that we looked at was getting our chimney cleaned. Have one, one of the things that we looked at was getting our chimney cleaned. So then we don't, you know, because if you the chimney build up with a carbon and all that kind of stuff in there, it can produce carbon monoxide also and that could actually start more fires and, um, it can actually leak. Oh interesting, you know the carbon monoxide things like that around the fireplaces and into your attics and things like that. So you, you got to be really careful with those, get them clean, get them taken care of. So you brought that up. So I felt like that was a really good kind of a good idea to bring that in there.

Megan: 14:03

Yeah, for sure.

Jimmy: 14:04

So if you have a you know chimney, make sure you get it cleaned. There's a really cool family business actually called Chimney Clean here in the Bay Area and they've come out and taken care of our you know their service to ours. I think they've cleaned our chimney twice and I think we've had maybe one fire in the last five years, but they still, you know, still call us and everything else. They're really cool folks, nice. So something to think about.

Megan: 14:42

Let's talk about what to do if your alarm goes off. Well, first of all, don't ignore it.

Megan: 14:59

I won't say that I'm not guilty of my fire alarm going off while cooking something and perhaps doing not cooking great, and I just, you know, open the back door and fan the smoke alarm with my tea towel. Don't do that for carbon monoxide detectors. Get outside fresh air. Carbon monoxide detectors Get outside.

Megan: 15:14

Fresh air. Fresh air is the only thing that's going to help get you out of that poisoning. You got to get oxygen into your system. So don't you know? Wait, think, oh, it's probably a false alarm. Even if it's a false alarm, it's not worth the risk. Get outside, call 911. And don't go back inside until professionals check it out and make sure that there's you know, not a leak. And if there is a leak, don't go back inside until the leak is fixed good, good, excellent.

Jimmy: 15:49

Actually a good piece of advice there. Um, in our building evacuation classes we always tell people it may not be a false alarm, you know, so go off and then, with that being said, check your batteries.

Megan: 16:04

Oh yeah.

Jimmy: 16:05

Check your batteries in your alarm right. The good rule of thumb is always, every time the time changes, change your batteries Mm-hmm Right and even if they're like pre-wired so we actually wired our last set of smoke detectors and carbon monoxide detectors the filament inside there they still expire, so there's still an expiration date on there that you have to look at.

Megan: 16:34

Interesting.

Jimmy: 16:36

So something to think about. Actually, when you, when was the last time you moved, when you started working for us, didn't you? Weren't you having an issue with your fire alarm? Yeah, smoke detector, mm-hmm, yeah, and wasn't it because it was expired? Yeah, all right, yeah, so I don't remember how. I remember that that was years ago.

Megan: 17:02

And I just remember that right now, for some reason, trap folks Still a trap. I think you had one more point right, not necessarily a great point, but something that I find interesting. Have you ever heard the phrase the canary in a coal mine? It's about when coal miners were down in the coals. Carbon monoxide levels could build up down there and would cause, you know, illnesses and death, and so they would actually bring canaries, the little birds, down into the coal mines and the canaries would feel the effects quicker and they would pass out or die, and that would be a warning system for the human coal mine to be like, oh hey, something's wrong, we got to get out of here.

Megan: 17:44

they would get up and get fresh air and know that there was, um, probably a carbon monoxide leak down there. So, um, a little tip is uh, pets can absolutely get carbon monoxide poisoning, so they can show symptoms and also be sick. And so you know, keep an eye on your pets, and if you have pets and your carbon monoxide alarm goes off, also get them out of the house.

Jimmy: 18:12

Yes, All right team. Thanks for joining us today on the Life and Safety Podcast. No-transcript.